New friends made, progress on the future website made, and chess was played!
We welcome new players Tom H., Dale K. and Elliot K. Glad to meet all three of you. Welcome to LCCC.
Discussions were held concerning a possible Ladder Challenge enhancement to our weekly chess games. Here are some rules that other clubs use to run their matches.
Take a look and comment with any improvements, inclusions, subtractions or suggestions to this possible weekly challenge. Remember, this is only a DRAFT!
Chess Ladder Rules
1. The Ladder Director (LD) is responsible for the updating the Ladder at the end of each week.
2. The decision of the LD on all Ladder games and issues is final.
3. All club players will be put in the ladder. New players are automatically placed at the bottom of the ladder. Members are NOT required to play in the Ladder Challenges.
4. Time Controls for Ladder games; - G/10 minute to G/60 are acceptable time limits for ladder games. If the two players cannot agree on a time limit, then G/30 is the standard. Using clocks is optional if both players agree to not use them.
5. For Ladder matches, touch-move is in effect.
6. CHALLENGES:- You may challenge any player above you within 3 rungs,
a) You cannot play consecutive matches against the same opponent.
b) All valid challenges (listed with date and time of challenge) must be accepted and played within two weeks (the week of the challenge and the next 2 weeks) or a forfeit of the higher rated player is declared. If multiple challenges are made to a player on the same day, a week is added for each additional challenge. Players are not required to play multiple challenges on the same night.
c) If this is the first time you have played each other, colour will be determined by lot. If you have played the opponent before, colours should be alternated.
d) If the challenger wins the match, the players swap ladder rungs.
e) If the challenger loses or draws, there is no change in the ladder positions.
f) If a match has been arranged in advance, players must notify the LD of the date and time.
g) If a player cannot find a player in the next three rungs, he may challenge the next player up that is available.
7. PENALTIES;
a) Failure to accept or play a valid challenge within the rules will constitute a forfeit and result in a win for the challenger.
b) For every 3 weeks of Ladder inactivity the player will drop down one rung.
c) After 12 consecutive weeks of inactivity, the player is removed from the ladder.
d) All infringements of rules as deemed by the LD will result in forfeit of match.
e) If you will be unable to accept challenges for a period of time, then notify the LD. When doing so please give an estimated return date when requesting a ladder position freeze. The LD may grant ladder “freezes” when deemed necessary.
8. RECORDING OF RESULTS; Once a match is over, the winning player is responsible for filling in the Results Sheet. Players must be aware of their appropriate change in their rung positions on the ladder.
Blogmaster Note: Suggestions and reactions please!
This sounds like FUN to me! My two suggestions are;
ReplyDelete1) The initial ladder will be a RANDOM draw!!! Watch the scramble to get certain matches! LOL
2) Eliminate Rule 7e. I don't think it is necessary. Even if you are unavailable for play for 6 months, what is the problem? So you start back at the bottom of the ladder. Is that so bad?
So now to the subject I was going to respond to.
ReplyDeleteThe challenge sounds good to me but I would add two additional thoughts. First how about we have the club TD handle it instead of having another official in the works. Second, I'd like to add an optional rating estimate per the handy dandy calculator on the USCF/LCC web site. Over time it might start to be a decent indication of relative skills along with the placement on the ladder. Start everyone with the same rating and see where it goes. If it worked it might transcend the ladder.
This process of optional play would make a good additional subject for both the blog and the web site. The not so official competition could have a lot of appeal and prepare members for club to club competition down the road. I like it.
The "LD" can be the "TD", as soon as we have a TD. And a club rating is fine with me also. I might even volunteer if no one else steps forward.
ReplyDeleteI don't think doing a club rating system using the USCF calculator is a good idea, because we have a statistically small number of members in a fairly narrow skill range. This means that a rating would have no relationship to the rating systems used by the rest of the chess world. We could end up with a 1300 level player getting rating under 1000, while an 1800 player could end up well over 2000. This could lead to a lot of unhappy players, never a good thing. In any case, the club ratings would be a joke because everyone would know they don't mean anything.
ReplyDeleteIt is far better to keep it simple and avoid problems, IMO.
I agree the rating would be relative to the population of players in the club, but who is to say that the club players are not in a range representative of the broader population of players at large? I don't have a lot of experience playing tournaments but it is my understanding that in the real world, that players are matched in groups with similar ratings. It's not likely that the worst player in the club is going to challenge the best player in the club, thus some similarity might be obtained.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, the chess ladder software includes a built in rating calculator that starts every new player at a 900 rating. No doubt the ladder ratings would be different than a USCF rating but isn't some rating better than no rating; especially if we are anticipating club to club play? Even if the ladder rating only ends up representing just a rank order?
I'm curious as to how different the ratings would be. My sense is that as the club population grows, the two ratings would start to converge. Especially for middle skill level players. Where it gets iffy in my assessment is for the best player in the club and the weakest player in the club. Maybe?
The flip side is that a straight win loss ratio is not a good indicator of rank either because there is no compensation for skill level of the players. Which is why the current USCF rating system exists. If we want to rank players we need the the rating system for better or worse til death do us part.
We just need a footnote IMO.
Here is my assessment of appropriate rules for the chess ladder play considering the available SW and the state of our club.
ReplyDeleteChess Ladder Rules
1. The Ladder Director (LD) is responsible for the updating the Ladder at the end of each week and the posting of player positions in the ladder at each club meeting.
2. The decision of the LD on all Ladder games and issues is final.
3. Member participation is strictly optional. New players are automatically placed in the ladder with a 900 rating.
4. Time Controls for Ladder games; - G/10 minute to G/60 are acceptable time limits for ladder games. If the two players cannot agree on a time limit, then G/30 is the standard. Using clocks is optional if both players agree to not use them.
6. CHALLENGES:- You may challenge any player above you within 3 rungs,
a) You cannot play consecutive matches against the same opponent.
b) All valid challenges (listed with date and time of challenge) must be accepted and played within two weeks (the week of the challenge and the next 2 weeks) or a forfeit of the higher rated player is declared. If multiple challenges are made to a player on the same day, a week is added for each additional challenge. Players are not required to play multiple challenges on the same night.
c) If this is the first time you have played each other, colour will be determined by lot. If you have played the opponent before, colours should be alternated.
g) If a player cannot find a player in the next three rungs, he may challenge the next player up that is available.
7. PENALTIES;
a) Failure to accept or play a valid challenge within the rules will constitute a forfeit and result in a win for the challenger.
d) All infringements of rules as deemed by the LD will result in forfeit of match.
e) If you will be unable to accept challenges for a period of time, then notify the LD. When doing so please give an estimated return date when requesting a ladder position freeze. The LD may grant ladder “freezes” when deemed necessary.
8. RECORDING OF RESULTS; Once a match is over, the winning player is responsible for filling in the Results Sheet.
9 Recording of game play move by move is optional but encouraged. Both players must agree however.
My little grief about the ladder system is that when two people play against each other, the lower-ranked player has nothing to lose and the higher-ranked player has nothing to gain. I'd hate to be, say, ranked #13 and then find out that I'm the highest-ranked player attending the club.
ReplyDeleteAlso, here's a different situation: Let's say I'm #13 and I want to challenge #10. But as soon as I walk through the door, I get challenged by #16, #15, and #14 (in that order). Do I need to play these guys before I can challenge #10? And if I lose to #16 (or beat #10), what will happen to my remaining challenges?
Not so much with the rating system. For example if your #13 and you challenge #10, and you lose, #10 gets some points added to his rating but not as many points as he would lose from his rating as if you had won.
ReplyDeleteAs for playing with multiple challenges it doesn't really mater what order you play the games as long as you can tell the TD or who ever is recording the games what order you played them in. The Ladder Program will resolve the rank order of the players based on the individual resulting ratings. That means that sometimes the difference between a level might be just a few points or it might be many points in the ratting.
Challenges are taken in the order they are made. If you happen to jump up over someone you challenged, then you can cancel that challenge. If you land below someone who challenged you, they of course will cancel their challenge. But of course you can challenge them right back!
ReplyDeleteIt's just for fun! Something to give the games a little meaning.
Faldo, Any objection to having a duel accounting of the ladder chess? If you tell me who is playing and who wins I could make the entries in the program and then we could compare the two methods. I am very curious about the relative ratings of our members.
ReplyDeleteNo objection at all. See the Tuesday post for Monday results.
ReplyDelete